Rumor: Durango leaks analyzed by anonymous source (Pastebin doc)

The last week we dug a deep hole inside the Microsoft strategy. The brand would want to sell two new systems. One would be next-gen, Durango, Xbox 360 successor. The other one, we are going to call it Xbox Mini for now, would be a redesigned Xbox 360. This Mini console would provide BC to Durango. That’s the idea.

An anonymous insider has analyzed our documents, our leaks and other ones about Durango. It’s like an open letter for everybody. Don’t lose your time reading me; please give 5 minutes to this interesting article:

So yes, I originally made a post on pastebin that I then posted on IGN that has now mysteriously vanished from the internet. I’m guessing good ‘ol Don wasn’t too happy.

In that pastebin post I said I wouldn’t be saying anything else, but that was before a few things changed. So yeah…. #dealwithit.

That IGN post (that referenced the pastebin post) was also posted on NeoGAF. Though it didn’t get much attention.

In that pastebin post I specifically mentioned that I was a GAF member, but that I would not be outing myself on GAF for fear of losing my job. And I still will not be doing that. I’m not an idiot.
However since the reveal is pretty close now, I thought I’d just come out and tell you everything I know. No more cryptic bullshit, just facts.

First of all, for any of the GAF members reading this (or anyone else for that matter) that actually believed the online-required rumor, well…. you’re either stupid, very gullible, or a fanboy. Reading the posts some of you made over the past few weeks leads me to believe that mostly fanboyism was involved. So, I’ll make this very clear:

You are not required to be connected to the internet in order to play Durango games and MS were NEVER considering doing such a thing. Now please, just read that last sentence over and over again until it sinks in. Done? Good.

Now that I’ve got that out of the way I can talk about the real details.
First, I’ll admit some things that I originally hinted at in the first pastebin are now not going to happen. Mainly the April 18th date (obviously) and the HMD glasses. The date, as you may know by now was pushed back to May, and the glasses, well, although they’re kind of working are going to spend a bit longer in the oven.

Ok, moving on. Have you read the VGLeaks article about the Durango specs? Yes? Good because everything you read in that article was 100% correct. Except, for one tiny little detail that MS kept guarded from most devs until very recently. That detail being that every Durango ships with a Xbox 360 SOC.

There was a reason why MS hired so many former IBM and AMD employees. I’ll admit I’m not an electrical engineer (I’m in software) so I won’t pretend to know the ins and outs of how the 360 SOC integrates into the Durango motherboard. All I know, and all I need to know about this new change is that I (or a game dev) can use the 360 SOC in parallel with the original Durango hardware.

What does this mean in basic terms? Well, apart from Durango having 100% BC with the 360, it also increases Durango’s processing power a fair amount.

Ok, so what else?

Kinect 2.0: – Again the specs from VGLeaks are correct, there’s been no change and there won’t be. However, the fact is, is that software can do ANYTHING, and with the quite substantial increase in the hardware over Kinect 1.0, any humanly noticeable lag should be gone

Controller: – The controller is pretty much the same. The D-Pad has been improved, but the change will only be noticeable when actually using it, i.e. it looks exactly the same, I haven’t actually touched it, this is just what I’ve been told. AA batteries will make a return, but the new wireless tech MS has created for the controller, improves battery life by 16%. Again, this is just what the doc says.

Xbox Mini/Xbox TV: Yes, this is happening, although as far as I know, it’s a whole different team over at MS that are handling this. As has been reported its main purpose is to compete with Apple TV, so expect this thing to be small and around $100.
It contains the 360 SOC (similar to the one in the Durango), however no disc drive is included (to decrease size). But of course you can still play any XBLA/Games on Demand game. That’s all I really know about the xTV so I’ll leave it at that. Thurrott seems to know more than anyone else about this, so go ask him.

OS/Services: I wish I knew more about this, but I honestly don’t. I have no clue what sort of new ideas MS are going to bring to the table this gen, but I’m certainly expecting them to amaze.
The only thing that I do know for definite is that Durango will be running Windows 8. It will essentially be the full version of the OS, minus the desktop side of things. This means it’ll be running the new WinRT framework, which as a side effect also means that contrary to popular belief MS will be the most indie friendly of all the big 3 next gen.
This is because any app/game that is created for the Windows app store will (after adding controller support of course) be playable on Durango.
In other words, any random person worldwide can pay Microsoft a $60 license fee (for the Windows Store) and submit their app/game to the store where millions of people can then download/buy it. No expensive development kits needed.
Expect to hear much more on WinRT – Durango at Build2013.

Ok, so that’s pretty much it. I wish I had more info on specific games and services that MS have lined up, but it seems that even I’ll have to wait until May to find out.
I’ll look forward to this post appearing on GAF, where rest assured I’ll be lurking. Hell, who knows I may even make a few posts.

I wonder how many people will refuse to believe this? Hmmmm….

Thanks, Lee Mcs Twitter.

  • Smells like pure bullshit. He just compiled a bunch of rumors and he’s obviously got a boner for MS.

    • Zero

      Why does it smell like pure bullshit? He is just stating what he knows about the Durango. He is just reaffirming most of the leaked rumors, so i don’t see how he has a boner for MS. If anything, this further validates the leaks and rumors released this past year.

    • lolatthefanchicks

      like your gape for PS?


    360 soc in parallel is pure Bc no way in hell developer can use that .

    • Jeff Pee

      Well, the problem is I think they will let developers use it/access it. But to what extent, I have no idea. If the rumors are true about the Durango specs it moves info quite fast, bandwidth.

      If they were to offload smaller tasks to the SOC that could work, but wouldn’t the small bandwidth, compared to the Durango, just create bottlenecks? Like say if they were to try and offload physics task or some graphical task to the SOC wouldn’t that create bottlenecks?

      If these the CPU & GPU in the Durango is an APU, does that mean the SOC is also part of the APU? If that’s the case the bandwidth might not be a problem but the processing of the data might be?

      I’m not very technical!!! is there anyone here that could shed some light on these questions?

      • Zes

        No. Just think about it for a sec. two different cpus and gpus in the same machine? Does a tablet or ultra portable laptop with intel i3 + ARM core exis? Is that even feasiable?

      • epobirs

        Think about the PS2 and the mundane tasks its chip that also performs PS1 compatibility handles.

        Rather than be used by a game, the SOC may be most useful as an independent element that can allow for background operation without reducing game performance. For instance, you’ve just purchased a 12 GB game and it’ll be a while before it downloads enough for the early portion to be playable. While its downloading you can still play your other Durango games because the 360 SOC is completely managing the download operation.

        A lot of stuff like that could be offloaded to the SOC to avoid interrupting Durango games while still getting things done.

    • epobirs

      It wouldn’t necessarily be directly addressed by a developer but rather used as part of the hardware support in the APIs.

      Think about the most effective backward compatibility design to appear in a game console: The PS2. Almost the entirety of the PS1 was incorporated within the chip that handled the controllers, disk I/O, and several other tasks within the PS2. When a PS1 game was run it took over the system. So the transistor real estate was put to good use even if no PS1 games were ever run.

      The question, if Microsoft has made a similar move, is what role the 360 SOC serves within the Durango when it isn’t used to run 360 software? Is it running the audio? (Sega did this in the Genesis, using a Z80 to run the audio and to run Master System games. The Power Base Converter was just an adapter for Master System cartridges and cards. The Genesis had the full capability of running the Master System games without it if the games were put on a Genesis cartridge.) I/O tasks? There are a lot of possibilities.

      If there is in fact a 360 SOC. It’s application to be cost effective can be logically explained but that in of itself doesn’t make it real. There is a big question of whether the backward compatibility is viewed as having enough value to use an approach that is significantly more expensive than completely new dedicated silicon for the jobs the 360 SOC might perform.

      Certainly Sony had a desire to repeat the successful tactic of the PS2’s design but couldn’t find a way to make it work in execution. OTOH, the PS3’s development was so fraught with difficulties, including a complete redesign to include a dedicated GPU instead of multiple CELL chips fairly late in the process, that an intent to have cost effective BC may have been lost along the way.

  • Noobasaurcryingbaby

    The GAF stuff at the start really makes this guy come off as a bitter whiny prick. Even if any of this ends up being true, I simply can’t take this as anything other than some Xbot fanfiction borne of frustration with a persistent wave of negative rumours flying around.

    Wake me up when we actually have a console to talk about.

    • Zero

      I don’t see how he comes off as a whiny prick in the least. I also see no frustration whatsoever in the article nor any fanfiction. He even states since the reveal is close, he’s going to reveal everything HE knows about the Durango.

      • eternallord

        he is jst saying what’s inside the DOCs….ntg special or new in this and still RUMORS

        • Zero

          He never said he was going to reveal any new information nor is he just saying wats inside the docs (he’s reaffirming wat the docs are saying), just wat he knows. That just so happens to coincide with wat was already leaked by VG (which he even said is true, 100%).

          I don’t see a reason not to believe him. He even states his reason for revealing everything he knows and he wanted to put an end to some of the bullshit rumors going around.

          • nope

            lol – no reason for not beliving? It is a fucking anonymous post on a website where anyone can post anything.

            I’m with eternallord. Nothing new in this leak. Everything was in the PDF document ages ago.

            According to you if I made an identical pastebin entry but said the entire opposite it’d be just as valid. Which then as it counters this post would mean we’re in a stalemate and thus discredits either post.

  • thesource

    well this makes sense. the 360 soc will handle texture streaming or HUDs while the rest is handled by the main machine. if the leaked specs are real it is a bit sad that it will have less graphic power than the PS4

    • Zero

      That’s true butt i don’t really see there being a big difference in gaming with the Durango/PS4. When games are made for multiple platforms, they’re made to be similar/identical (ex: games for 360/ps3 and psp/ds games).

      Also the new Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate (the ps vita version is being made like the 3ds version even though the ps vita version can be made like the ps3/360 version).

  • Amir0xisawesome

    Bwahaha…the NeoGAF Microsoft Defense Force of DEADEVIL, PolarBears&Penguins, Surly, Abacguy, Alfred Jodi and Rat Salad were ready to eat this garbage up with a spoon. Spinless pissants who love drinking Steve Ballmer’s juices and pledging allegience to that Green Xbox flag on the hour, every hour!.

    • TheBadman

      And don’t forget The Crusty Juggler now known as Hindle. Holy crap that guy has M$ bias. That spin from the thread with that one firm predicting Gears of War Judgement’s NPD numbers to be 425,000. Oh man. Dude was saying it’s “expected” from Microsoft and not as bad as the predicted 360,000 for God of War Ascension had me on the floor laughing. If anyone at Microsoft or Epic saw that number for Gears, they’d have a freaking heart attack. Gears is clearly the more embarrassing number since the franchise sells much bigger than God of War in the states. Both would be horrid numbers for their respective franchises no matter what. And who the fuck cares if God of War only has 2 console games vs 4 console games for Gears when their latest iterations were PREQUELS no one really asked for, Crusty Dumbass? Dude should work for Microsoft PR.

  • commonsense

    Why would Microsoft include a 360 Soc in the next xbox? Bc would not be worth the added cost and enginerreing headaches.

  • marcofdeath

    You are telling me that the text at the top is BS. ” Have you read the
    VGlesks article about the Durango Specs? Yes? Good because everything
    you read in that article was 100% correct.” So this “SIMD instruction
    set is extensive, and supports 32-bit and 64-bit (SIMD-64wide) interger
    and float data types.” My best one is
    “A SIMD executes a vector instruction on 64threads AT ONCE in lockstep.” People someone
    changed the “12 sc*4 SIMDs*16 threads/clock=768 ops/clock *(1 mul + 1 add) *800MHz = 1.2TF”

    The only way to used a 32-bit and 64-bit integer is A SIMD-64wide.
    PC’s use a SIMD-16wide for 8-bit and 16-bit wide data. This is no
    misprint that’s twice how!!

    • JUDAS

      U fake On beyond3D they say that Berry !

    • fistsofjustice

      Ah you again! Weren’t you saying that Durango would have 2 8xxx class GPU’s in it? And an IBM CPU? The funny thing is if this is true it still won’t be as powerful as ps4! Your the worst kind of x-bot, dream on sonny.

  • GHost Box

    Why in the world would Microsoft need to hide BC from developers? Does that make any sense to anyone? What would be the big mystery to devs about having backward compatibility in a new console?

    • Zero

      I think they only want developers to work only on the Durango. MS hiding the BC doesn’t really matter since the 360 games will still be made for the 360, you’ll just also be able to play it on the Durango as well.

  • Uh, no? WinRT is ARM instruction set only. Durango is x86-64.

    • I know better

      Wrong, WinRT is a API

  • PlayStation 4

    The new Xbox truly is absolute crap.

    • Zero

      Why would you say that?

      • Ricardo Muñoz

        Well you know, its name is more than enough to know why he is saying that.

  • Fred

    Microsoft adding oldgen SOC to enable BC? You mean copying the stupidest thing Sony ever made, crucifying the PS3 pricetag? This is as legit as me making up stuff and putting it in pastebin. And there isn’t even a tiny bit of “dev/engineering language” that can be verified in this article. Seriously… proofs or gtfo.

    • Zero

      No, it’s not the same as you yourself, putting something on pastebin. Me and my friend actually found the post he made on NeoGAF and pastebin (i will cite later). This leads me to believe that wat he’s saying isn’t straight bullshit (he even states his reason for doing this).

      Why would he need proof? Not having proof doesn’t mean that wat he’s saying isn’t, in any way, true.

      • Fred

        Excuse me, but as long as i don’t have the beginning of an information (or technically solid explanation) that i couldn’t read on internet over the past few weeks (because there’s nothing more to this article), this guy is a nobody with no more legitimacy than you and i have. So yeah, it is the same as myself putting something on pastebin, and actually, i think i could do better than that.

    • epobirs

      Wrong example. The PS2 BC in the PS3 was expensive because it was the sole use of those chips. Consider instead the PS2, where the chip that ran PS1 software also handled major functions for the PS2.

      The PS3 was a rushed design after they gave up on the original concept of doing everything with multiple CELLs. Given better integration the PS3’s BC would have added less cost and been kept as a permanent feature.

  • Usman Mohammad

    Back again here, and the only thing surprising me is the Xbox 360 SoC. That has never been mentioned before by anyone, but everything else seems to be in line from what we’ve been hearing from other leaks and sources (like trusted sources and MS insiders such as Thurrott and MJF and not what IGN and Kotaku tend to spew out).

    I’m going on a limb here and say it’s going to use the Windows blue kernel (NT kernel 6.3) considering, that project blue was about having a common code between phone 8 and 8.1 so porting wouldn’t be necessary. Phone 8 and Windows 8 already use the same core but Phone 8 uses a modified WinRT framework called WinPRT(Windows Phone Runtime), but uses most APIs, so when apps go from 8 to phone 8 the code has to be slightly changed. Blue is supposedly changing this so that they use the exact same code cross platform and thurrott before has mentioned that this will allow the apps to also run on the next box.

    To be honest, this is just round up of all that we know, I could have wrote that up as well. However VGLeak’s sources have stated that backwards compatibility to do with daisy chaining the Xtv/Xmini to the durango console. Usually these are on point so I’m not too sure about the 360 SoC especially when he mentions in parallel, when the SoC is using a different architecture and will likely be sandboxed like DS mode on 3DS and Wii mode on Wii U.

  • honest

    this article is bull crap,stop making up stuff to get traffic to this site

  • Thomper


  • saigon1914


    please tell me why are you defending this rumor so much. Every post I see a clear defense by you within this article and it makes the rumor look worst.

    The rumor has so many flaws its not even worth pointing them out. just as an example so you won’t come back at me with more defense, why does the original poster claim to be with MS as he is on the Durango development team and then state he is a game developer. Its so wishy washy…Also look at the addition of the 360 SoC, do you realize how much of a headache that would be to not only combine with an x86 chip set, but let alone manufacture the product and apply the software to allow them to be used in unison. That in itself raise not only development cost but the end price unit. if that is true, this system is going to be a little expensive.

    this article sounds very well and exciting, but this is a rumor, until MS says something, this is only a rumor.

  • kneehighspy

    the original ps3 had bc, and the ps2 and ps3 hardware was totally a different architecture and bc worked on ps3. blind Sony fanboys once again. a soc is very achievable, graphics, CPU and other necessities all on one chip, yep possible.

    • nunyah

      The launch ps3 only had the emotion chip in it, it was not anything near what the SOC chip is. It was only put in there to help with the emulation. The 80gb version had full emulation without any hardware help from ps2, but had problems running many games. Research fa**ot. SOC is possible yes, but do I think it’ll work the way hes saying it will? Nope. If I can’t get xbox360 emulator on my pc by now, I doubt microsoft will achieve anything great with their ideas.

  • Pedro Russell

    Not believing these rumors until I hear it from the horsey’s mouth. PS4 was rumored to have 4gb of GDRR5 until Sony announced otherwise. But their rumors and we know that. It just something interesting to read and to give us some insight of wtf M$ is doing.

    • John Nunez

      It was a last minute change by Sony, to be honest their reveal felt a little to much like a “First!” post for the next gen.

  • Paul

    Fanboys, fanboys everywhere

  • lowspeclaptop

    crossfire x ? amd can crossfire gpu’s of different generations. Now if they could patch 360 games to play at a higher res on the 720 that would be cool. Regardless just ordered a gtx 670

  • Zes

    ???? Why would a game console have two different, and from different generations, architectures for games? Is that a Roadrunner supercomputer alike? genius!

  • ELCUCO786

    Fake and gay

  • Malkill Basdain

    wow what a crock.Sound like typical Gaf rumor stuff…. how is this stuff even taken with a grain of salt.